Longtime UFO investigator Allan Lavigne joins Martin Willis for a deep-dive into the “boots-on-the-ground” era of UFO research—when cases were tracked by phone calls, paper files, and relentless field work. Allan recounts his time with APRO (Aerial Phenomena Research Organization), the pioneering civilian group founded by Jim and Coral Lorenzen, and explains how APRO’s investigations accelerated after Project Blue Book ended. Along the way, he shares what it was like working some of the most talked-about cases of the 1970s and beyond—abductions, crash-retrieval lore, and major sightings that still divide researchers today. Allan also provides a rare first-person account of being the first investigator to interview Travis Walton, why he considers the case legitimate, and what details from that original interview still matter. From there, the conversation shifts into controversial territory: the Billy Meier saga (and how APRO evaluated evidence in the pre-digital age), the Phoenix Lights, the “alien autopsy” film from the perspective of a professional effects artist and law-enforcement veteran, and what he considers credible versus clearly fabricated.

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